Plantlocks to lock your bikes to
by Danny - July 18th, 2009.Filed under: Bonnington Square, Langley Lane, Pavements and Road Works, Transportation, Trees and Plants, Vauxhall Grove.
Here’s a photo and how to lock your bike up to them:
This is Draeyk’s initiative (not Viva Vauxhall’s) and he has identified 13 potential sites for these containers:
Lambeth Council would supply and bolt the containers to the pavements. Draeyk wants to know what you think before going ahead with this, so please:
- e-mail him on draeyk@yahoo.co.uk
- comment below here on the blog (means that we can all exchange views and Draeyk can comment here as well).
July 18th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Above was me with my VV blog hat on; this is me as a local resident.
I have certain reservations:
– They are ugly, bulky and will just clutter up the pavements even more.
– I don’t think that people will use the stands if they are not close to their house or if they have an expensive bike as it, or bits of it, would get pinched (April’s bike was pinched recently from Langley Lane and it was securely locked to a tree!).
– Draeyk hopes that they will ‘hopefully get some love and attention from residents nearest to them’. I don’t think that’s good enough. Either someone takes on the responsibility of looking after them or they shouldn’t be installed – we already have lots of tree plots that are just covered in weeds.
– Have all the residents, outside whose houses these stands are intended to go, been contacted and given their approval?
– If this goes ahead, let’s not go immediately with 13 as proposed. Let’s trial one or two so that residents can decide what they feel about them in situ; see how well they are maintained – and observe whether they are even used!
I realise that having somewhere to put bikes is a real problem around here, and I don’t know what the answer is. If it is bike stands, then there are much nicer designs about and I will try to get a photo.
July 18th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Personally I am all in favour, they are actually rather attractive in my opinion, you can see some outside OVAL house theatre. They not only provide secure locking places for bikes, but can be planted up too and don’t take up too much space. I guess the placement is important and they probably need to be “owned” by someone who lives next to them who will water the plants.
We have been talking about doing this for years, and I am really keen to do it now. As a bike rider, I will keep mine in our “secure” space, but people who live on the middle and top floors will I am sure be happy to have the opportunity to start riding a bike if they have not been able to find a parking space before.
Sadly bikes will always be nicked, but good locks are worth the investment.
ALL IN FAVOUR???
Please join the debate!
July 18th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
I think that the main thing is that the streets don’t get more cluttered - if we are to have the PlantLocks then we need to make sure that redundant ’street furniture’ is removed at the same time.
July 18th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
I am in favour in principle but I suspect there is a back story to the whole idea and would be grateful to know what it is.
July 18th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
FYI: this is the letter ive put up around and alongside the maps in the community.
PLANTLOCKS IN OUR AREA?
A plant container that is also a secure place to tie up your bike!
proposed sites? please see map (corridor entrance to Harleyford road garden)
Oh, and before anyone asks I just thought this was a really fantastic idea and free. Im not doing this in any other capacity!:)
here is the deal:
They wont cost us anything as lambeth council has agreed to pay for them (+soil) all we need is an OK from the community and hopefully some love and attention from residents nearest to them.
The number of proposed sites is 13, but if you want more let me know! We have limited them as much as we can so as not to clutter the street. We have avoided areas where there is already lots of posts to tie bikes to and areas where folk have private bike space esp in VG and langley lane. We have tried to put them where they wont obstruct. Some sites are up against walls e.g. side of number 30 BS, with bike lock handle on only one side, or near motorbike parking areas. Also we tried to put them near good lighting and where residents have already made requests for more safe cycle parking.
If people really don’t want them we can always remove them! This isn’t a concreted-in addition to the street. We just empty the soil, unbolt and move them away. With soil they are they weigh 75 kilo, so difficult to move (esp if bolted down)
The info and mini cards (next to map) show you what they look like and we can choose some colours; green, black or red… maybe more on negotiation?
and ill add to this letter with some comments…
firstly, there is potential to remove useless street furniture… we have been trying, b4 VV to get rid of some of it and these plantlocks will not add to the problem. the company involved said they have negotiated removal of bollards and poles to be replaced by plantlocks so it maybe a win-win situation.
the bottom line is that we need secure bike spaces and thats it! i have spoken to italio and two residents last tuesday at 26BS who together have five sites near them and both promised to look after them. so i think instead of being negative we look at constructive ways forward. THEY ARE REMOVABLE IF THEY DO NOT WORK!!! whats to loose? its taken two years to get this far, so it would be sad to just say they are “ugly” lets not have them.
to be quite honest i would rather we remove some car parking so we have proper safe bike spaces. we live in the second highest polluted area in london, why do we need so many cars??? cyclist’s cuts the pollution you breathe…isnt that worth encouraging?
finally, as an example, our block of four flats has six bikes crammed in hallways. and its getting worse, as at last more people want bikes. this is typical of many flats/houses in the area.
so lets just see, shall we? i know some will not be gardened effectively. but i rather like a bit of anarchy on the street. weeds to one and flowers to another after all!
hope thats a bit of back story for ya!
July 19th, 2009 at 11:43 am
Some points to Draeyk’s post:
Viva Vauxhall discussed getting rid of surplus street furniture, but nobody took it on. I agree with Pete that redundant street furniture – not just where bike stands might go – should be part and parcel of this exercise.
It’s good that some residents have agreed to look after the planted-up containers, but then initial enthusiasm has to translate into actually doing it. I took up Chantal’s suggestion to go and look at the plantlocks next to the Oval Theatre. There are four of them. Only one still gets some TLC; the other three are just sad and neglected, and the rubbish just collects around them. Not a pretty site/sight and I fear the same would happen here.
And yes, I stand by my point that these particular bike stands are ugly. Now we all know the beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and in this case should be influenced by ‘the holder’ itself – but I’m not getting it. All I’m seeing is a bucket with handles, painted green and filled with earth. There are much nicer designs about – what else has been looked at?
Draeyk’s block of 4 flats has 6 bikes crammed in hallways. That’s not good, but maybe that’s the residents’ choice, otherwise why don’t they chain the bikes to Bonnington Garden railings straight opposite the property or to any of the 6 lamp posts/posts within spitting distance to them? If they aren’t bike stands in all but name, what are they?
July 19th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
I have noticed that one of these bike stands is being proposed for Vauxhall Grove outside Rosewood House.
Considering that I already take care of 6 street plots that would otherwise be neglected, the last thing I want is to have another planter forced upon me. Unless some of the residents in favour take the responsibility for maintaining it, what, as usual in the area, seems rather utopian.
Rosewood House and Pippins Court have underground garages with bicycle racks for residents and visitors, and most other properties in Vauxhall Grove have front gardens where bicycles can be stored securely.
Considering the above and the fact that no one will chain a bicycle to a rack far from where they live it is rather preposterous to propose a planter bike stand in this location. I have consulted with other residents in Rosewood House/Vauxhall Grove and we definitely don’t want it!
They also seem rather bulky and inadequate for the narrow pavements in our roads, which are already over clutered and impossible to navigate for the elderly, the disabled or those with prams. I would advise some consultation of the Disability Discrimination Act.
July 19th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
Firstly has any survey been conducted to establish how many residents would require these facilities and were these residents live?? The proposed placement of the bike planters gives the impression that they are required more in the BSq area.
Personally I do not want to have these UGLY bike planters outside my flat.
Rosewood House and Pippins Court already have bike racks in the garages, so it would be a waste of resources to enstall them in VG and will clutter the pavements still further.
The ‘adopt a plot’ scheme for the pavement plots has NOT been a great success in VG so, to believe that ‘near residents’ will maintain the planters is, perhaps, optomistic.
I also question how secure using these facilities would be.
Just a thought - would it not be more beneficial to constructed a secure bike shed in the area instead, if there is such a demand??
Residents could be charges a nominal ‘key fee’, which would offset the construction costs, and go towards its upkeep.
I do not believe that the bike planters will enhance the area, in fact I think that they will have the opposite effect.
Surely a plain ‘u’ frame would be less obtrusive?
If residents want the bike planters in BSq, that is there decision, but I would strongly object to them being siting them in VG.
July 20th, 2009 at 7:49 am
ok, to be blunt!
do any of you doom sayers actually ride a bike? or just here to talk down an initiative? is there an issue around this not being a fully paid up VV initiative?
i know the vocal elements of rosewood house are not keen, despite a three wide metre pavement, to one planter, it was suggested for guests, or maybe you dont have cycling friends? if you want u-stands that fine. ask the council. maybe you can also do a survey of the flats and ask who does/dosnt want them? again, they can be removed if not used or liked.
danny, i could say lets remove all the car parking spaces that “clutter the street” and just let drivers find a spot in fentiman road! its rather ridiculous to say tie them to the garden fence as it would look a mess and damage the hedge! is that what we want? it is our choice to ride a bike and excuse me but if our wanting to improve the health of those around us is a reason to deny any bicycle provision. VV might want to consider how many residents own and ride bikes! i suggest car drivers pay to have bike provision as a initiative to offset the poison they put in the air every day!
i also do not think putting these in is part of a programme of removing useless street furniture, which was, to correct you a commitment attempted b4 VV got going. i said it would be useful, where a bike lock goes in that it replace, if possible, some useless street furniture. i think it is rather a bit rich to say that the bikelocks going in is dependent upon sorting out the excess street clutter.
July 20th, 2009 at 8:08 am
try this link: http://www.london.gov.uk/mayor/transport/cycling.jsp
so what are we going to do to cater for cyclists and the projected 400% increase in cycling in the city the mayor is looking for?
July 20th, 2009 at 9:04 am
Draeyk,
Ok, lots of points to deal with:
1) No, no Viva Vauxhall (VV) involvement except to ask Jimmy to liaise with you. Unfortunately, (as I understand it), he couldn’t make a meeting at short notice and you have just jumped in feet first here. If VV had discussed this, I’m sure that it would have stayed neutral. Don’t try to make VV out to be the bad guy here.
2) If you are going to do something, then do it properly. Don’t just look at one option as you seem to have done here.
3) Yes, you could just propose removing all the car parking spaces that ‘clutter the street’. I think it is a valid view and maybe one we could debate once we have put this issue to rest.
4) You say that ‘its rather ridiculous to say tie them to the garden fence as it would look a mess and damage the hedge! is that what we want?’
So you think that bikes attached to the Garden railings would look a mess. I totally agree with you, but do I detect a hint of nimbyism here as you would, of course, then have this view from your flat. But, on the other hand, you don’t mind plonking these ugly buckets with bikes attached outside other residents’ houses which would look a mess and get even messier with fag ends and rubbish thrown in them as happens a lot around here with other plant containers and tree plots. I also remain unconvinced that the hedge would be damaged by the bikes being secured there. And ok, you don’t want the bikes attached to the railings, but you didn’t answer why, if your block of flats has bikes floor to ceiling in the hallways, why the residents don’t then attach them outside to all the posts in the vicinity. Is it perhaps because they are afraid that the bikes will be pinched?
5) I think you need to stay focused on what the issue is here. Nobody is against the provision of bike stands and I am simply arguing that the bucket you have come up is too big, too ugly, would clutter the streets, wouldn’t get looked after, and would attract rubbish.
6) No, I don’t think that ‘it is a bit rich’ to say, as Pete does above, that removing unnecessary street furniture should be part of this exercise.
AND YOU CLEARLY HAVEN’T GOT A MANDATE FROM LOCAL RESIDENTS TO GO AHEAD WITH THIS .
I will address this in a separate post.
July 20th, 2009 at 9:30 am
I have only just heard about the proposed plantlocks - some of which will be where i live, on Vauxhall Grove. I can’t say i am happy about this initiative. Firstly, in Rosewood House we all have gated safe bike parking so this is not needed. I also think they are an eyesore and like the look of our road as it is rather than with more clutter down it. I do not want people’s bikes parked down our road when they already have tidy parking which is all we need. If this is something the other roads want then i obviuosly do not mind - but don’t see why we need more places (taking up our pavement) for bikes when we already have plenty of space. To confirm i do actually have friends who regularly cycle to mine - but i have the decency to park them in the gated garage where they should be - not on the pavement outside my house!
July 20th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Draeyk,
I’m worried that you are just going to ignore what’s being said here and ask the Council to go ahead with this. Please would you e-mail me the details of your contact there as they should be told that you have not yet secured a mandate from local residents to go ahead with this scheme.
Debating this issue in this thread is excellent, but I don’t know how many local residents will be tuning into it. You need to organise a meeting and get a vote. Will you do this?
When you reply, please don’t keep bringing VV into it as my views expressed on this thread are entirely my own. If you do want to take a swipe at VV for whatever reason, you are welcome to do so – but please let’s start a separate thread. E-mail me something, I will post it on the blog and we can debate it.
I repeat that I am all for bike stands – but not the one you would like to impose upon us. You need to research nicer-looking ones that won’t need looking after, won’t attract rubbish, have some design element incorporated in them, and won’t clutter up the streets.
And please come back on why the residents in your block of flats won’t attach their bikes to the poles and lamp posts just outside your property.
July 20th, 2009 at 9:53 am
Reading all the posts I see why people say that democracy is by far the most inconvenient form of rule…….. I am not a biker but I have great sympathy with those who are and who have had bikes STOLEN or vandalised. Trying to objective, it seems to me THE overriding issue is secure bike parking, assuming such exists, so that thieves cannot get at bikes. Googling ’secure bike parking London’ got me a site selling cycle lockers, ugly boxes and expensive too, that contain the bike out of site. And also cycle shelters, huge things suited to an out of town office car/bike park.
I am perplexed. We want more biking, we want less driving of cars, bikes have to be stored as do cars, so let’s have a bike park… only the boxes above are simply dreadful. We need some fresh creative thinking. My head already hurts.
July 20th, 2009 at 10:13 am
John,
I’ve made it clear that I agree with you that these bike buckets look dreadful.
I know that Draeyk (as do others) care deeply about this issue, but I also know that he, being a keen gardener, would never allow the botanical equivalent of what’s being proposed here to go into Bonnington Square Garden. He would do the proper research, consult with others, get committee approval – and that’s all I’m pushing for here.
You are correct in saying that the overriding issue is ’secure bike parking’ and that’s why I keep asking Draeyk why residents in his block of flats choose to have hallways crammed with bikes rather than attach them to the posts just outside. That is as secure a parking as he is going to get with his bike buckets.
July 20th, 2009 at 10:21 am
danny,
1) jimmy had a months notice on various dates. but yes it was a shame that only he could come along. but then again this idea was never set in stone.
it very much is rich of you to tie the two things together, removing all the extra street furniture to put in a few bike stands.
2) if you imagine ive only looked at one option you are mistaken, i looked at many.
3) i havnt jumping in feet first; however i would have thought supporting initiative more important than a barrage of negative comments. we have done this in the community for many years, it may be a an anarchic method and not to your taste of organizational hierarchy.
4) i have no problem looking at bikes on rails or not and obviously you have never tied up a bike otherwise you would know what damage it could do.
5) i am in no way just going to go ahead with this and get them put in. please credit me with some sense! i will talk to people and wait to hear from those in favour.
6)clearly you think they are ugly, thats your opinion.but i would also say that just because a few people on here dont like it that dosnt give you the mandate to say no to the who lot of them.
7)I REPEAT, these are free and after look at options these seemed the best short term solution. others are expensive.
finally john. thankyou for your sensible contribution. now there is constructive reasoning rather than negative blasts! i agree the sheds for bikes are not great and i would love to see what we can do. we, or i did look into funding for a shed but they were all expensive and we have limited space in the streets.
so do we go back to the idea of proposing the removal of some car spaces and build some desirable bike store?
that will be an interesting debate!
July 20th, 2009 at 10:30 am
Draeyk,
A positive addition and certainly a major improvement to the area would be if you would not sulk everytime others disagree with you, if you would respect other people’s views, concerns and suggestions rather than just try to impose yours on them, and ultimately if you would be prepared to listen to other residents rather than listening only to your own verbosity.
Only then will it be possible to reach some platform for dialogue and consultation.
Feel free to contact me when you are prepared to listen to the reasons why one of these planters outside Rosewood House is not a good idea.
Jorge
July 20th, 2009 at 10:41 am
Draeyk,
I wish you wouldn’t get so personal. I am busy now and will get back to you later on your latest post which, I have to say, is all over the place.
I will keep trying to tie you down to discussing the issue in question and to giving straight answers to straight questions.
By the way, in praising John for his post (as I did), you did note of course that he also finds the proposed bike planter ugly.
Speak later.
July 20th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
THIS: “so do we go back to the idea of proposing the removal of some car spaces and build some desirable bike store?” …….. is I think where we could all agree on talking about - in a group though, face to face, not by blogs that are not conducive to proper debate. As a car owner I’d guess that most like me would say ‘Take away car park spaces for bikes? Over my dead body!” .. but we have to try. QU: What is the cumulative loss in £ and anguish over stolen bikes? QU: does Lambeth council have participative role here, as they’d have to approve this sort of stuff? As I have to personal history on the bike parking I’d be happy to act as jovial referee as I can see some feelings have been hurt, perhaps unwittingly. I am back in Vauxhall 28th July.
July 20th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Where were we? Ah yes, your rambling last post. Rather than attempt to unravel it, let me drag you kicking and screaming back to what this thread is about – but before I do, and hopefully for the last time:
I AM NOT AGAINST INSTALLING BIKE STANDS. I AM ALL FOR INSTALLING BIKE STANDS. I AM SIMPLY AGAINST THE BUCKET STAND THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO HOIST UPON US WITHOUT THE MANDATE TO DO SO. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH VIVA VAUXHALL.
– You say that you have looked at many other options other than the plantlock. What were they and why did you dismiss them?
– ‘i will talk to people and wait to hear from those in favour.’ is what you are saying. Not good enough. Not transparent enough. You need to organise a meeting and not cherry-pick what suits you to push these bike planters through. Why won’t you?
– You say that these plantlocks come free. Are you saying that other bike stands supplied by the council would have to be paid for?
– You complain about the six bikes in your block of four flats. Why do you think residents would use bike stands further away from your property when they choose not to use the poles and lamp posts just outside?
– You say, ‘THEY ARE REMOVABLE IF THEY DO NOT WORK!!! whats to loose?’ You say also that it has taken you two years to get this far (why, I can’t imagine). Then, why should it be any quicker or easier to get them removed? You know it doesn’t work like that.
– Why won’t you give me the contact details of the department/person in Lambeth Council with whom you have negotiated these plantlocks? Or, I’m happy to meet them with you if you prefer. I want to make the point that you do not yet have a mandate from local residents to install these bike stands.
When you reply, please just talk these specific bike stands and comment on/answer the above. Leave all the other stuff for another time.
July 20th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
I agree with many comments that allocating some car parking to secure cycling facilities is the best solution.
But, given that this is clearly not going to happen, I think that Draeyk’s initiative should be supported. Anything will improve on the scattering of lamppost’s that account for the current situation.
July 20th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
ditto. i am all in favour for the bike plant stands. in an ideal world we would get more ’street bike parking spaces’, but this seems unlikely in the near future, if ever. so let’s go for it. i like the look of them, and do believe that people who care to have the stands will also care for the plants in the pots.
July 20th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
jorge, dont be so pompous and your derisory comments are just that!
danny, im terribly sorry you feel out of some imagined loop and your dramatic imaginings on my denying you information is uncalled for.
i am not the only one getting personal!
somehow this community has grown in an amazingly organic way, we get on rather well. unfortunately we also rub up against each other.
ill say no more. it feels like a storm in a teacup and i regret getting drawn into these absurd machinations.
p.s. the pictures of the proposed sites i sent you? maybe you could post them here as an appendix. it might clarify things a bit more for everyone concerned.
and to remind you, five of the planters have been specifically asked for!
July 20th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
John,
I agree with your proposal for some form of steering group to work on the bike storage issue. That has to be the right way forward.
July 20th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
Draeyk,
If you don’t want to reply to my above points, then fine – I can’t force you. But I maintain that they are clear, to the point and reasonable.
Rather than post the photos here, much better and much clearer to have a walkabout with anyone who’s is interested and we can chat as we go around. Maybe a better way for me to persuade you and others of the necessity, in my view, of holding a meeting so that you can get a mandate to do this
July 20th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
Just to say I put some ideas including these bike stands to our co-op a while back as there have been problems with bikes in hallways. I think these might be good if they had shelters and maybe could plant vegetables instead of flowers for a change? But as there have been problems with bikes and bits being stolen not really sure.
July 20th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
Hi guys,
I am having some fun watching this evolving so apologies for spoiling the party.
I have recently moved into the area from Wimbledon.
Interestingly we had some of these buckets installed in our residential road about 18 months ago. The difference is that we paid for them and had them installed with the council’s permission, while you seem to have pumped some cash off the council. Surprising to see what the priorities are in Lambeth…
When we first came across them we thought they were neat and the right solution. The supplier was very persuasive (aren’t they always?) and convinced us that they were essentially ‘break proof’.
Well, they are not!
Soon after having them fitted, we realized that bicycles were being stolen regularly and a lot more were being damaged in the process. Residents took their bikes back inside their homes, leaving some unwise visitors to use them during the day. These realised soon enough that they were not secure at all. Overnight no one used them.
They became little more than neglected big black litter bins that no one cared for. After 8 months we paid (again) to have them removed.
I wouldn’t dispute that they might be useful in busier or commercial areas, but not right for residential roads. With this in mind I would recommend some preliminary research to find what other alternatives there might be available.
I’ll leave you to it! Night, night!
July 20th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
Hi Phil,
You want some preliminary research. You got it.
http://www.marshalls.co.uk/select/PDF/Products/CYPA04.pdf
Over to Draeyk to pursue this further.
July 20th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
WOW… have just come in from toiling in the fields with a lovely cuppa…nothing on telly so I log on to VV as you do and sheeeeit I canna believe how street furniture can arouse such twitter!
Seriously though this issue is a biggie for all of us and I think Draeyk is to be congratulated for taking it on as an option available now and FOC. Unfortunately for me the Plantlock chappie couldnt make the original arrangement so I missed the walkabout on behalf of VV.
Within Vine Housing CoOp and its 22 properties Cycle storage is a huge headache particulary when the houses are divided into units. With few alternatives bikes tend to get left in hallways where they contravene fire regulations apart from being a pain to get past or even open doors properly. With little communal outside space answers within the CoOp have been few and far between.
The obvious way forward is to make safe and secure provision as part of the street furniture to encourage more bicycle use and personally I am all for taking up car parking space(s) for a shelter(s) sympathetic to our surroundings. The challenge will be to find a design that residents can use securely and like the look of. However the Plant Locks are a start and a worth a go particularly where they are specifically asked for outside houses. Unfortunately for us here in the thick of VG there is little room for one nearby my front door as I have suffered many times from bike theft and little or no room inside for a bike.
The best hope for success here is if they are adopted by individuals especially if they use the planters to successfully secure their bikes. Planting options vary from full sun to shade but should take advantage of the fact that it is a ‘raised’ planter..i.e well drained. I would be very happy to offer planting advice if anyone is interested.
On a final note in my view the future for BS and VG in the medium and long term will be less and less reliant on car use. With Global Heating, Peak Oil etc our greatest asset here is our close proximity to the centre of London and the excellent public transport links.. speaking as one dependent on 2 business vehicles I think our quality of life will improve with more priority taken away from private cars and on to pedestrians and bicycles.
Laterrr
July 20th, 2009 at 11:16 pm
Hi Jimmy,
You mentioned Bonnington Square and Vauxhall Grove but left out Langley Lane and (a section of ) Harleyford Road that also fall within our residents’ association area
You mentioned that the plantlocks are available now and foc. Unfortunately, Draeyk wouldn’t elaborate on the other designs that he researched, the availability and whether these would carry a cost implication if the council agreed to them. I don’t see why they would.
And wouldn’t it be worth checking cost, availability and suitablility of other designs now that Phil has told us of his first-hand experience of having these plantlocks installed where he formerly lived and, 8 months later, having them removed again. The fact that they appeared to be particularly vulnerable to bike theft, I find rather disturbing.
I think that this is turning into a very useful debate.
July 21st, 2009 at 6:27 am
good lord!
danny i am not being evasive and really i dont know what you want from me? shall i write a list? from shed to d-bar, to wrack to road hoop, from rails to raised wheel locks. im i being micro-managed here???
if nothing else im happy that this discussion is happening. i value the first hand experience with the plantlocks. that has more validity than “its ugly”. id still like us to try them, as a short term idea but phil’s comments do give me pause.
if nothing else this helps some of us realise there is a massive lack of facilities for cyclist and that is something VV should recognise if it is to represent us or enable residents to persue this need.
July 21st, 2009 at 6:38 am
phil,
can you explain in what way they didnt work? were they not secure? in the wrong place? did the design mean bikes were warped by attempts to steal them?
duncan kramer is the chap ive been dealing with at the company that sells them. ive mentioned what you said already and if you have a specifics it would help. the last thing i want to encourage is something that dosnt work!
cheers
July 21st, 2009 at 8:01 am
Draeyk,
“danny i am not being evasive and really i dont know what you want from me? shall i write a list? from shed to d-bar, to wrack to road hoop, from rails to raised wheel locks.”
Save lots of time and take everyone through it at a meeting - including suitability, availability and cost implication to local residents – and why you then chose Plantlock (I don’t think you are able to). You could of course then get a mandate from local residents to pursue the best option and I would be happy.
“if nothing else im happy that this discussion is happening. i value the first hand experience with the plantlocks. that has more validity than “its ugly”. id still like us to try them, as a short term idea but phil’s comments do give me pause.”
Read my first post and check the other objections I have to these plantlocks – apart from their ugliness. Read my post above where I explained why, once the plantlocks are installed, they wouldn’t be ’short-term’. And Phil’s post only gave you room for pause – is that really an adequate response here? He has stated very clearly, among other things, that bikes get pinched from these plantlocks. You need to research this more thoughourly.
“if nothing else this helps some of us realise there is a massive lack of facilities for cyclist and that is something VV should recognise if it is to represent us or enable residents to persue this need.”
Argue the points I make rather than continually taking swipes at Viva Vauxhall, but, so as you know, Cllr Rob Banks and I are pushing really hard to progress the current parking review (which Viva Vauxhall initiated!) – an integral part of which is secure parking for push bikes and motor cycles.
July 21st, 2009 at 9:28 am
Hi,
I think that secure bike locks would be great, although I had my bike stolen about three weeks ago from where I thought it was secure with a good lock.
I am unsure about the planters due to lack of space on the footpaths at present. I have looked at other bike lock designs and note that we may be able to provide secure bike lock loops that would also be secure motorbike locks as well if placed near the curb. Wow different users would be able to use them covering more residents?
It would be great to have secure areas to lock up bikes outside of our houses. Having said that the bike that I had stolen was a very good and reasonably expensive, it had a decent lock and when taken the thieves took the lock as well, although no damage was caused to the tree it was locked to. If I able to lock a bike to my tree and not cause damage to that would it not be possible to lock bikes to railings and also not cause damage?
It is great that Draeyk is taking the initiative and doing something that he feels strongly about, I thank him for bringing this to an open discussion.
Am in favour of bike secure locking facilities but feel that not cluttering the footpath and keeping the overall look clean should be a priority. I lurve the wishbone design on Marshalls and would like to see the security extended to Scooters and Motorbikes.
July 21st, 2009 at 9:53 am
Sorry Danny I didnt mean to leave out Langley Lane.. honest! I dunno about Harleyford Rd though.. thats another planet!
The crime/security issue and Phils testimony is more important and to be honest I would be wary about leaving my bike out overnight tied up in a public area. I suspect the answer long term will be some sort of lock up with keys held by residents perhaps protected with a web cam…
Meanwhile either way we must work together towards a permanent long term solution, and if residents will ‘adopt’ a PlantLock and maintain some suitable planting lets give it a go and if it falls into disuse they can be removed?
Laterrr
July 21st, 2009 at 11:13 am
Dear all Thanks veyr much for comments. A lot of good contributions have been made by everyone and it would be nice if the discussion could get back to the main issue of how we can accomodate bike owners without inconveniencing others, and get away from personal comments and point scoring!
As a bike owner and advocate I’ll admit that few storage solutions are aesthetically pleasing and, let’s face it, the much needed sheds and bike racks will require some planning to secure space and budgets we do not currently have.
I have been lucky enough NOT to have my bike stolen, despite it being locked up outside for more than a year without use and the key is that I can keep an eye on it from my window, so I can see the appeal for others. (It is not that easy to bolt a bike to a pole by the way, if you have a good D-lock. They are not that big!)
Why not let the residents who want free plantlocks try them out, and not force them on anyone else who doesn’t want them? If we are talking about 5 or 6 people to start then it is a good small pilot and a painless way to judge whether or not:
a) neighbours feel they’re an eyesore even if not on their own doorstep;
b) they ostruct foot traffic on the pavements where installed;
c) they are safe and effective bike storage
Who knows, people may even grow to like them OR bike owners may find they’re not agreeable - too low, fussy, vulnerable, etc.
I do absolutely agree they are unlikely to be well-tended plant pots, going on current evidence, but if those taking them on first are part of a pilot to potentially phase in, then perhaps it’s an added incentive to keep the plots nice as a model of what they might be.
Cheers,
Tyler
July 21st, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Hi neighbours,
Lively argument!
Brand new to the area but can tell it’s the infamous Bonnington Square of the 80s against the new blood.
Charming!!!
Ref your questions mate:
- They didn’t work ’cause they are like any other ‘n’ shaped bike stand. The difference is they are attached to a big plant pot that in turn is fixed to the ground. Bikes can be cut off. Frames can be forced/distorted/warped and parts removed. Have a look at the railway arch next to Vauxhall station. Plenty of evidence there.
- What exactly is the wrong place? They were placed on the pavements outside homes and whenever possible by street lights.
- Would you leave your bike chained to one of these overnight? I wouln’t. It’s London mate!! Lets get real!
- Don’t know what company supplied them as not involved with the buying.
Over to you mate.
Have fun! Bye!
July 21st, 2009 at 12:11 pm
thanks phil.
ill feed that back. i agree we need a long hard look at this. i think there is always a problem with whatever system we use. in the end we probably need sheds of some description. i still maintain it would be useful to use them, maybe we can simply do a trial run on a limited number (maybe three or four) of them and see what happens?
July 21st, 2009 at 12:14 pm
danny,
we clearly dont see eye to eye on our approach to community interaction and this is being manifest in our discussion here. i dont think its fair on everyone else for us to continue arguing the toss on here!
July 21st, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Draeyk,
Simple. Stop arguing then.
As I will by agreeing to 3 (preferably) or 4 plantlocks, but I would like assurance that these would be outside properties where the residents have agreed to have them sited. And that you have customers signed up and ready to use them. I suggest that you flyer properties local to the intended sites (and I can put something here on the blog as well) and see who comes back to you.
May I suggest Jimmy becoming involved again as VV liaison.
July 21st, 2009 at 1:34 pm
in view of Phils comments and Tylers suggestions… see what happens. i have passed on comments to duncan.
glad to see that through all this we have, at least here, some developing consensus.
July 21st, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Draeyk,
No, ’see what happens’ is simply not good enough. You have also ignored my post, which is just silly. Please respond to it.
And let’s all remember that Duncan is the supplier and it’s Lambeth Council who will be paying.
I can ratchet up my opposition to what you are doing and how you are going about it – no problem. You decide.
July 21st, 2009 at 7:47 pm
I have lived in Bonnington Square for 3 years and I am totally stunned by the fact that this argument is taking place.
Draeyk, you are a bully to whoever disagrees with you!
What part of “DON’T IMPOSE YOUR VIEWS ON OTHERS” can’t you understand?
You obviously thrive in anarchy but you cannot just force your views upon us.
I don’t want one of the planters outside my house. If one appears I will have it removed and skipped even if I have to pay for it.
Why don’t you experiment with one outside your own door step?
And you can use your own bike to test its effectiveness too!
And for the record I do own a bike and a car, and not prepared to give up either just to please you.
Tessa
July 21st, 2009 at 9:27 pm
Tessa,
Somebody has e-mailed Draeyk and copied me in to say that the more she thinks about these bike stands, the more she sees problems for the oft-repeated problems of size and not being maintained. She also commented that it is important that people are asked and agree to have them outside their property.
Draeyk replied to her that the few ‘we will have will be in places requested but if that’s near where you are that will have to be reconsidered’.
Note the ‘we will have’ meaning that he’s already made up his mind to impose them upon us without a mandate. He’s not listening.
July 21st, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Danny,
How can one single resident impose himself on everybody else like this?
What is Vauxhall coming to?
This is bullying at its worse guise, and surely there will be other residents unhappy with this situation but keeping quiet for fear of even more bullying.
How can we proceed to ensure that our individual complaints reach the relevant department in Lambeth?
Is it possible to have information on the blog telling people who might not want to talk publicly how to do it directly to the council?
Thank you for keeping this going.
Tessa
July 21st, 2009 at 9:56 pm
Ok, we now know from an off the blog conversation between Draeyk and a unhappy resident that he only intends to put the ‘few’ plantlocks outside the properties of people who agree to this. What about their near neighbours – is he not going to ask them? And how many is a ‘few’ planters? Is it the three or four that he mentioned above?.
I would still like assurances from him that he would only install planters in locations where bike users have said that they will use them. He can easily find this out by flyering locally to the intended sites and reporting back to us.
It is not reasonable to take the risk – and wasting taxpayers’ money – of installing them and then finding that people don’t use them, as Phil said above from his experience of having had them installed in Wimbledon.
Interesting: if you read through this complete thread, I think that I am correct in saying that people have commented that they wouldn’t use these bike stands, or that they would be wary of doing so, for fear of having their bike pinched – but that no one has come out to say that they would use them. Crazy situation.
If Draeyk now intends to disappear from the thread and keep us guessing as to how many planters he intends to impose upon us, where they will be, and whether people have said that they will use them, then I will make representations to both the supplier and to Lambeth Council. I will also return to my previous position that Draeyk does not have a mandate from local residents to go ahead with this scheme.
July 21st, 2009 at 10:25 pm
Tessa,
I submitted my last post and then read your latest one.
I’m concerned that Draeyk has gone all quiet on us and that is mainly because I suspect that he wants to plonk the planters in place with no assurances that anyone will use them. That is plain wrong.
Note that when promoting these planters, Draeyk complained about the six bikes cramming the hallway of his block of four flats. I asked him several times why the residents do this rather than chain them to the lamp posts and poles just outside – which are bike stands in all but name. He just refuses to comment. In other words, I suspect they are afraid of having them pinched or they simply don’t want them left outside. Why in that case would they use bike racks if they were installed?
Yes, I’m sure that I will be able to publish the contact details of both the supplier and Lambeth Council here and people can then either e-mail them to object or support what Draeyk is trying to impose on us. I’ll get on to both of them myself tomorrow to make my views known.
July 22nd, 2009 at 6:46 am
i’m still here.
tessa, im sorry you think im being a bully. this whole idea was a suggestion and open to comment. i have no plan to wade in and deposit these plant locks on anyone who dosnt want them. im waiting and saying “lets see” till we have more feedback other than the few people here. ive already told one resident if she dosnt want one near here we would need to reconsider. i cant speak for her neighbours if they want one… that’s why i cant just say ok, no problem… isnt that so unfair? but to be honest one hasnt been proposed outside her property anyway. tessa, if you let me know your house number ill do he same and hopefully one isnt being proposed outside your house. and if it has, im sure it probably wont happen as your quite passionately against it.
i have no plan to plonk them willy nilly anywhere and equally two or three people here have no mandate to say no to the lot. i do believe residents can make up their own mind what they want outside their property as long as there is enough space.
of to the few potentials ive already mentioned, nothing has changed since then. the rest are up in the air as ive said and said again they are proposals. i have never said I WILL PUT THEM IN REGARDLESS. im trying to allow time for response.
id love one outside my house, but when we went around we narrowed down what seemed the best positions as ive aready mentioned. i put my personal desires aside.
now, if the new parking review you and rob are pushing involved bike parking spaces why have you never mentioned this till now? you know full well ive been investigating cycling issues for some years. it might have saved some time. although i appreciate that review will take quite some time to come online.
danny, “I can ratchet up my opposition to what you are doing and how you are going about it – no problem. You decide.” so threats now is it? who is being a bully now?
i havnt replied to you as your opposition is no longer about plant locks, you may wrap it up in a dialogue about them but it clearly about a conflict between us. i have offered to talk to you about this and clear the air.
i regret that the tone of the discussion has become personal and over heated. all its done is cloud the discussion.
i made one swipe at VV, but actually its not about VV as you well know! and i apologise to those in VV who i know and value.
July 22nd, 2009 at 8:17 am
Draeyk,
You now say to Tessa that you will wait for ‘more feedback other than the few people here’ (before going ahead at all or with as many plant troughs as you can hoist upon us?) Why wait? Why not go out there and actively get feedback by flyering the residents’ association area, holding a meeting and getting a mandate to go ahead with this scheme in some form or other?
It’s good that you are now stating here that you will allow ‘time for response’. In that case, I am not around for the whole of August and I am sure that I would have more to pull you up on if I were here. At the very least, please would you confirm that you will NOT impose these planters upon us before I and others return from holiday.
So, on confirming to one concerned resident off the blog that you won’t be installing a planted-up bucket outside her property, you are keeping your options open in case her neighbours request one. But, if that were to happen, that would be as good as plonking one on her doorstep anyway. I think that you have to get approval not only from the property itself where you intend to install these planters, but also from both direct and nearby neighbours. Will you agree to do this?
As the days go on, you seem to have fewer and fewer trump cards to play in your attempt to hoist these rubbish traps upon us without proper consultation with local residents. One of them is (in reference to me and I suppose, Jorge) that we don’t have a mandate to ’say no to the lot’. I won’t speak for Jorge, but how many times do I have to make it clear to you that that is not what I am after. I am expressing a view: that view is that I don’t like the bucket with handles that you are proposing for all the reasons given, you haven’t considered alternative designs properly, and you don’t have a mandate from local residents to go ahead with this. Flyer the area, hold a meeting, get a mandate and I will go with the flow.
“id love one outside my house, but when we went around we narrowed down what seemed the best positions as ive aready mentioned. i put my personal desires aside.”
Oh dear, you may regret saying this. You have plenty of room directly outside your house where you have ‘reclaimed’ a section of the road (the road, not the pavement) to put your wheelie bins and a planted-up luggage trunk. Put the wheelies on the pavement as everyone else does and put one or two cycle racks in the road.
BTW, WHERE DO YOU STORE YOUR BIKE?
“now, if the new parking review you and rob are pushing involved bike parking spaces why have you never mentioned this till now?”
But I have, Draeyk, I have. Search under PARKING on the blog and go to the post headed ‘Motorbikes/scooters easy to steal’. Read again what I said: “The current parking review of the area (subject to consultation with local residents) will include installing new motorbike/scooter bays.” Secure parking for push bikes and motor bikes would also have been covered in VV committee meetings at which you were present and which you chaired.
Yes, I am ratcheting up my opposition – you can clearly tell that from the tone of this post. And the fact that I am now going to contact the supplier of these plant troughs and Lambeth Council to make my views known. Portray it as a threat if you want to point-score. It isn’t meant like that. It’s telling you that I have other options to consider if you won’t be reasonable and democratic in this matter.
Yes, you did offer to sit and chat over a coffee, but I would rather do it here where everyone can witness the conversation. You’ve shot yourself in the foot a lot today and it’s given me the opportunity to write this post.
“i made one swipe at VV, but actually its not about VV as you well know! and i apologise to those in VV who i know and value.”
Well no, actually, I don’t know that and I have offered you the opportunity to voice your criticisms of Viva Vauxhall in a separate post. I’ve also quickly just flicked through the posts and I count ‘four’ swipes at Viva Vauxhall – not ‘one’. Clearly someone has pulled you up off blog about this. Good that you now choose to apologise to those in VV whom you know and value – I accept your apology
July 22nd, 2009 at 8:27 am
BTW, WHERE DO YOU STORE YOUR BIKE?
And I still want you to come back and confirm that, if this scheme goes ahead in some form or other, you will only install these bike plant troughs in locations where you have assurances from local residents that they will use them. This is taxpayers’ money that we are talking about here.
July 22nd, 2009 at 8:57 am
well im glad you think so.
now what part of ‘proposed’ do you not understand? the bike locks were put forward, as ive said and seem to keep saying even if you choose to ignor it. this map was put forward for consideration, discussion, or adoption; a suggestion!
i really dont know what else to say? you ignor this and just assume ive decided something.
let me say flyers and meetings dont make a mandate either!
ok, so you would like me to do that? put them outside my flat im fine with that danny. but surely you would like me to ask others first?
im trying to keep an even hand here and your making it impossible. “(before going ahead at all or with as many plant troughs as you can hoist upon us?)” never implied that at any point.
its implicit that i would wait to hear back, thats what consulting is.
as for consulting: thats what the posters were partly for and if i didnt have to waste time arguing the toss with you i could actually do some more!
danny is that what you call informing me? as i resigned and the meeting was vague how am i to know if any of it progressed? mmm i could have asked, you could have told me…???
danny you go ahead and contact them, i thought you already had as you told me you were. goodness knows what convolutions your will impress upon him as your take on things is all over the place.
dont bring democracy into this! you know my views on this. VV is only as democratic as the limitations of the political expediency that the concept allows… usually the rule of minority!
“witness the conversation” what conversation, emails are fine but are always poor substitutes to a simple talk when we have so many clear issues with each other. your people skills are in dire need of an overhaul.
and to end danny, foot shooting is what we all do depending on the view of the opposite. lame threats and aggressiveness; even if you think its not, isnt acceptable!
please try being a tad less bombastic! you might elicit a more reasoned response.
July 22nd, 2009 at 9:20 am
“ok, so you would like me to do that? put them outside my flat im fine with that danny. but surely you would like me to ask others first?”
No, for once, indulge your ‘personal desires’ and put one or two bike racks right in front of your house. That will surely please you and the other residents in your block of four flats who would like somewhere to put their bikes if you don’t want to use the lamp posts and poles just outside.
BTW, WHERE DO YOU STORE YOUR BIKE?
“let me say flyers and meetings dont make a mandate either!”
No, but flyers, a public meeting and A VOTE seem to work for most people. A process you seemed happy enough with when you attended the Bondway Tower public meeting and voted in favour of giving VV a mandate to oppose the planning application. Anyway, tell us then in detail what consultation process you intend going through and will you agree not to proceed with anything till September when I and others will have returned from holiday?
Come back on these points and then I will leave it for today. Tomorrow morning I will list the key issues that you are evading, the key questions that you refuse to answer. That should get us focused again and may well be job-done with my arguing with you in this thread as I will have squeezed all the concessions and information out of you that I’m going to get. I will then carry the fight to the supplier and to Lambeth Council.
July 22nd, 2009 at 3:55 pm
Draeyk,
Please lets focus on the facts.
Firstly no one has yet said that they are against the introduction of secure bike locks. All the residents that have expressed a view on this are very much supportive of secure push and motor bike locks in the area.
What seems to be the point is that these bike locks that, it seems, you have chosen yourself, are by no means any more secure than any other form of upright bike locks. As someone said in a previous post ‘the only difference being that they are attached to a planter’.
Considering that many of the pavements in the area are already quite busy with street furniture and planters of all shapes and sizes it is debatable whether we should introduce more bulky items, especially when they might not be fit for purpose.
As I have mentioned before, and I still support that view, pavements must de accessible to people of all abilities. Introducing more bulky street furniture to an area in which the very narrow pavements are already saturated, seems to be an extra liability. And I think it is reasonable to insist that the needs of the elderly, the disabled and those with prams must be considered in this exercise.
In addition it seems clear that few people are committing to using them for the simple reason that they don’t feel their bikes will be safe.
The other point is their location. Ok you devised a plan, using some criteria that you have not yet divulged, for where these should be installed and you have put a copy of this plan up on the board by the community gardens. You argue that that is enough consultation. I think that is questionable. How many people actually consult the information board?
Out of respect for the residents that would eventually have a planter landing outside their door it wouldn’t be unreasonable to expect that they would be contacted directly in order to search their approval.
In addition, and as per my previous post I don’t think that a bike lock outside Rosewood House half way down the Grove would serve any purpose. As I explained Rosewood House and Pippins Court residents and visitors use the cycle racks installed in the garages. Most other residents have front gardens that they seem to use for secure bike storage.
Secondly I don’t have issues against you personally. I hardly know you. I do however dislike the Vauxhall status quo that you seem so desperate to preserve; the Vauxhall of the 1980s, of squats, dereliction and anarchy and deprivation.
The world has moved on and Vauxhall has moved on too. I prefer the Vauxhall of today; more diverse, more confident, more prosperous.
As you have surely noticed, the residents that have remained from the 80s have moved on too.
Many have cashed in on their, by now, rather valuable properties and started new lives elsewhere. Others remain and seem to have settled surprisingly well in more structured ways of life. Some created their own businesses and became quite affluent in their own right, some settled for more conventional careers. Some cycle, some have cars, often more than one per household. Many have both.
It is their choice and their right. Whether you or I agree or not is irrelevant for the purpose of this exercise.
Basically they seem to have moved on and accepted that diversity makes communities stronger and that tolerance and respect are essential for a balanced community, all the more so in high density urban areas.
I don’t really understand why you keep ‘having a go’ at anyone you perceive as having a different lifestyle to yours. Please just let go!
By the way just to clarify your concern at the beginning of the thread. I don’t own a car or a bike. I walk and use public transport.
Thirdly I do take a serious issue with your constant pinching at and undermining of, the concept of democracy.
Although a far from perfect system and certainly with many shortcomings it seems to provide a good balance and to offer a voice to whoever wants to be heard.
I personally would fight for democracy at any time against any anarchic attempts at archaic autocracy, no matter how illuminated it might be.
After all it is democracy that allows people like you and me to live side by side in this country, to work, to contribute to society, to feel safe and to be able to express our own views openly and without fear.
Similarly to you I have chosen to come and live in this country from abroad. For that reason I have also accepted the rules of the game.
Ultimately, as pointed out by Danny, you seemed rather willing to accept the democratic process, when it suited you, to oppose the Bondway Tower. You cannot just dismiss it when it is unsuitable to your plans.
So, back onto the planter bike locks issue.
Councils do not throw tax payers money around, certainly not into the hands of individual constituents or for the fulfilment of private agendas. For that reason it seems fair to assume that you have approached the council for these funds in the name of an organisation.
I don’t know if it has been as Viva Vauxhall or not. If that was the case, the situation would naturally be quite irregular.
The essential question that I would please ask you to clarify is:
as you don’t seem to have a mandate to represent a local group or association (the question has been asked many times and you have avoided a clarification), as you haven’t consulted with the community on the viability of these or any other bike locks, and as you haven’t discussed or seeked approval as to their locations, how and why were these funds allocated to you to spend?
It would be good for all to know how the process works as some of us might like to bid for any other local projects.
Once this matter is all cleared we can then move on to the issue of the secure bike locks.
Many thanks
Jorge
July 22nd, 2009 at 4:55 pm
im unable to move with this for a while as ive other things to deal with. that will give danny ample time to work up his list! gee i wish i had as much time to devote to this! ill be back in a week and yes im fine with waiting unless some of the keen residents want them now! then what do we do????…
ill answer the above “comments” and try and refrain from commenting on the politics, which jorge, in your effort to “focus on the facts” you digress to… interesting?
ha! i was wondering what if the levels of immaturity would bring this up… but as you both mention it.
bondway, yes i voted to oppose it and VV to oppose it. i admit i try and work with corrupt systems, that dosnt mean i agree with them and it does frustrate me. im clear about that, can you be? our chair of the meeting, danny and yourself? also hardly remembered the vote against and no abstaining was given. that wasnt a democratic vote, esp as %95 of residents didnt show up. so why dont you both recognise this “democratic deficit” indeed was there enough time to debate the issue? surely the consultation could have included some workshops and sub groups? another meeting or two to develop more feedback? or a door to door survey? so tell me both of you WHAT DO YOU USE AS YOUR CRITERIA OF CONSULTATION? and can you list the options you decided upon? what was done to bring in the developers to have their say? why couldnt we meet with councillors? or re-arrange a meet with them… i could go on and on as you are in your dogged over reaction to my initial proposal.
both yours and danny comments have so many errors and mis-interpretation it will take me a while to sort the errors out and answer them and im afraid ive other things to do.
as ever this is only one part of consultation.
hearting it is that ive had another two residents contact me very much in favour. also a business, out of our area but took note of my email. we all have differing tastes. by my simple anarchic reckoning and in a spirit of yay and ney democratic principles you so love we have a majority here in favour of them and i suppose if i go by comments on the street a lot more. so by your principles we almost have a mandate to just go ahead???
oops, was that you loosing a collective leg to stand on?
sorry i know that was terribly sarcastic!
July 22nd, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Draeyk,
You are just plain rude, worryingly insane and totally out of control.
Surely we can all see that much!
Do you really think I would give my address to someone like you?
Tessa
July 22nd, 2009 at 10:51 pm
Draeyk,
Let me emphasize once again that I totally support installing SECURE bike stands, but question whether the way that you are trying to impose this particular bike stand upon us is in the best interests of the community.
I don’t think that you have thought it through at all; I find you dissembling in your replies and your communication is disintegrating into something resembling a strange tongue.
All indications are that you do not intend to consult with the wider community on this issue and therefore I am going to lobby both Lambeth Council and the supplier to pause before placing/processing any order for this product.
Key issues/questions:
When and how did you come to be chosen by Lambeth Council and Front Yard Company to represent our community? Was it before or during the time when you were acting as Chair of Viva Vauxhall?
You have yet to confirm whether an initial order for plantlocks would be for 3 or 4 units.
You refuse to reveal the consultation process that you would engage in to reach any decision on supplying plantlocks. You will not agree to the generally-accepted process of flyering the local area, holding a meeting and getting residents to vote.
You confirm that plantlocks in any trial order would only be sited in front of somebody’s property with their permission. You have not confirmed that this would also be the case with any subsequent orders.
With regard to any trial order and any subsequent order of these planters, you would be prepared to install these without any guarantee from local residents that they would tend them or clear the rubbish around them.
In any trial order, you have offered to put 1 or 2 bike plantlocks in front of your house. You have yet to confirm whether you, yourself, would use one of these bike racks.
You have yet to agree to only installing plantlocks in locations where you have been given assurances by local cyclists that they would use them (the concern being that taxpayers’ money might be wasted).
You have yet to agree to consult with neighbours and near-neighbours when putting a plantlock in front of someone’s property.
You say that you have evaluated other bike stand designs before settling on the plantlock, but won’t elaborate on this.
You have yet to agree that you would hold off agreeing any order for Plantlocks with the supplier, Front Yard Company, until September after people’s summer holidays.
July 22nd, 2009 at 11:17 pm
I have e-mailed Duncan Kramer at the Front Yard Company (FLC), the supplier of these plantlocks.
I have made it clear there are various issues to be resolved in our community before FLC agrees to supply these bike stands and asked the following:
– How much money has been made available by Lambeth Council and how many bike stands would this purchase.
– If an agreement were reached between FLC and our community to go ahead with their product, would they would have to get final approval from Lambeth Council before supplying them.
– For confirmation that no decision will be agreed with Draeyk to supply these stands before September when local residents will have returned from holiday and when hopefully we can then reach agreement on how to proceed.
– How and on what basis did his company accept that Draeyk was representing our community.
– To be given the contact details of the department and person in Lambeth Council who agrees finance with and places orders with FLC.
July 23rd, 2009 at 6:26 am
i was asked by the cycling officer as id already been in touch about cycling issues. then frontyard got in touch with me. id already looked into other designs and i thought these were a cool idea, i liked the planter/bike lock idea. this whole project was just an idea and it wasnt meant as a massive process… if people didnt want it then fine, if they did then fine! that was it!
when i did a mini campaign for “home zones” many years ago i did a similar thing, i put up some posters, proposed a idea of closing one part of a street and left it at that. there was no tide of yay or ney and as such i left it alone as an idea. not one person thought id just decided to do it! so whats the difference here???
anyway, i said to duncan id present it to the community. as a resident what more do you need?
it was and is a suggestion, a proposal open to discussion.
as ive said to you a million times ive had agreement from various people who want them and are willing to look after them.
you expect me to hold a meeting and vote on three large plant pots?
we have shaped this community through personal empowerment and you just simply dont get it! we didnt ask for permission to plant trees or flower and now we are well regarded by the council and internationally as a success in community empowerment. now as a new comer who bought in on the tide of gentrification this might have somehow gone under your radar? and this may seem at odds with your management techniques but it’s what we have! and i know its changing here and thats fine but while i have tried to meet you half way on your rather dogmatic “consultation” you wont see my side at all. or answer my critique of the bondway meeting/lack of consultation????? look to your own methods!
you have no understanding of your own accountability in this matter. i have apologised for my rudeness whether explicit or unintended in personal emails and you have yet to do the same. indeed you refused to even meet me to sort it out! so you cut of all avenues and then make wild accusations about me.
im happy with lively banter but this has been an episode in the realms of the twilight zone.
July 23rd, 2009 at 6:29 am
tessa,
your “contribution” is much appreciated!
July 23rd, 2009 at 6:34 am
p.s danny
i also emailed him to apologise for your dragging him into this rambling board, how ridiculous of you! you could have just made your point to him and let him respond and then post it here, as any ‘man on the clapham omnibus’ would do! or do you expect our councillors and lambeth officers to do the same?
this discussion is not very representative after all as its more a display in personal conflict and wider issues you seem blind to.
c’est la vie
July 23rd, 2009 at 6:54 am
Draeyk,
We have both laid out our stalls and I suggest that petty squabbling is to be avoided from now on.
You and I are both in agreement to invite Richard Ambler/Lambeth Council to get involved here.
The process is becoming more democratic and I am obviously happy about that.
July 23rd, 2009 at 10:22 am
Draeyk mate, when I came into the thread a few days ago I thought you were intriguing and imagined you as a bit of a community activist. But you are just plainly a stirrer; no subtlety and no coherence. You just shoot out left, right and centre.
Do people actually listen to anything you say?
Move on mate!
P.S. By the way mate Tessa is right; you are obviously a bully!!!
July 23rd, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Duncan Kramer/FLC has replied in a nice, calming-the-waves, thought-through, transparent e-mail.
The good news from the point of those who were uphappy with the product proposed and/or the way it was being sold to us is that nothing now will happen till September when most people will have returned from holiday. Some points to highlight from the e-mail are:
– Duncan says right at the beginning that there is no rush.
– Richard Ambler/LC currently has money available for bike-parking in the borough. No money has been made over specifically to FLC as a company.
– No requirement that it has to be PlantLock. There are other forms of on-street cycle-parking.
– FLC is keen that the Plantlock product is appropriately used, not put in locations where it will fail, or cause problems.
– FLC actively recommend other forms of cycle-parking when they don’t think that PlantLock will work or is not appropriate.
I have offered to meet Duncan together with Draeyk on my return from holiday. Let’s wait till then, but maybe already be thinking about inviting him to talk to interested residents about Plantlock and the other forms of cycle-parking that he has referred to.
July 23rd, 2009 at 10:54 pm
Good to see people are thinking about bike storage!
We’ve had (the only two?) U-shaped bike stands outside our house for over 15 years. In that time many bikes and bits of bikes have been stolen. So no one with a bike of any value will leave it there.
But there are always a couple of bikes and recently 4 or 5 chained up there. It’s getting hard to negotiate the pavement.
I would welcome more of these or similar around the Square and Grove as they take up very little space and obviously some people are happy to use them.
July 24th, 2009 at 6:49 am
Sandra,
These must be the two bike stands near to me as well. The bikes secured there are not bikes that thieves would regard as quality bikes and would pinch. There is another U-shaped bike stand where Vauxhall Grove meets Harleyford Road. I have never ever seen it used! It’s good that you point out what lots of people have said to me: No one would leave a bike of any value chained to these stands overnight.
Yes, if new bike stands are installed, it is important that they and the bikes do not obstruct the pavement. These plantlocks are a lot more bulky than other types, so it is important to take that into account. Their design is also a lot more contentious that other loop shaped variations and why full and transparent consultation with local residents is especially important before any are installed.
I too would welcome more bike stands around the area if that is what residents want, if they will be used, and if the process of installing them is democratic.
July 24th, 2009 at 6:56 am
Draeyk,
You gave me permission to post your e-mail to Duncan Kramer/FLC and copied to me.
“im glad that smooths the waves. i didnt think anything would move fast.
here is richards email danny, RAmbler@lambeth.gov.uk no he wont be aware of anything as yet. if it helps, i suggest we/whomever is interested? have a meeting him and to discuss bike parking and see where it goes? we did talk b4 and he was aware of subsidies available (we just missed out on them) and was made difficult due to removal of parking spaces.
seems to me that whether plantlocks happen or not it would be usefull if, in conjunction with parking review we see what long term solutions can be investigated. i also spoke to LCC (london cycling campaign) for advise on successful outcomes that have come out of situations like ours.”
Why the MASSIVE change in tone and attitude (which I obviously welcome, but wonder what’s behind it)?
July 24th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
I don’t want to get involved in the bike locks debate, as that is an issue for local residents, but just to say that as ward councillors we are always happy to meet with local residents, be they as individuals or viva vauxhall reps, to discuss these issues.
And just for clarity, we are also happy to meet with Viva Vauxhall or any other local residents to discuss the Bondway development plans. As local councillors we have put in an official objection to these plans, and look forward to hearing any further views or comments on it. We were sorry we couldn’t make the meeting earlier this month on this issue as we had a full meeting of Lambeth Council at exactly the same time.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
Rob,
Thanks for that. It would be appropriate for me to say here that you, Cllr Andrew Sawdon and I attended a Viva Vauxhall meeting today with Controlled Parking Zones (CPZ); Transport, Planning and Strategies; and Community Safety to get the Parking Review back on track. I think we all left the meeting hopeful that things would start to happen now. I will write a new Parking (category) post later in the week once I have heard from CPZ detailing the way forward as we discussed.
Needless to say, cycle-parking and motor bike/scooter parking will be an integral part of the review and consultation process.
July 26th, 2009 at 8:24 pm
wow!
just came across this website and live locally and this was the first topic i looked at with comments and thought id try and read it. wish i didnt now.
didnt realized id moved into a busy neighbourhood.
my thoughts as a non cyclist… (but my boyfriend is! so i have sympathy) well seems we need some better space for bikes. and space to walk on streets. i quite liked the idea of these plant containers for bikes but agree they need looking after.
but seems there is lots of opinion on how best to do this.
to be honest seems there is a lot of bullying going on here from many people and i dont want to get involved in this discussion.
just wanted to say that i love this area and hope to become more involved in it (work permitting)
July 26th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
apart from plantlocks I put through some other suggestions for bike holders to vine co-op - more secure but more expensive bike storage systems. suggest people look at london cycling campaign magazine for ideas!
July 27th, 2009 at 8:32 am
can i make a very practical suggestion, just to move things along?
i’d be more than happy to call an open meeting to all cyclist and anyone interested in how to best deal with the issue of bike safety, storage and cycle parking and any other ideas verging on it.
we can discuss plantlocks there but i think its probably best to have an open handed approach to all possibilities.
i propose we have it after the holidays in mid september?
thoughts on this appreciated.
July 27th, 2009 at 8:39 am
ill re-phrase that: meeting open to all to discuss cycling issues, dont wont anyone feeling they cant come along!
January 24th, 2010 at 1:09 pm
Not sure which category to put this under but I thought local people might be interested in this initiative by Channel 4’s River Cottage series. If anyone is growing food locally in unusual places Hugh Fearnley Wittingstall is inviting people to take part.
http://community.rivercottage.net/users/Hero/blog/river-cottage-food-heroes-
January 24th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Also here is a link to Project Dirt which is based in Clapham and is an umbrella organisation for lots of local green projects.
http://www.projectdirt.com/
February 16th, 2010 at 8:07 pm
just so you all know and i hope the trial plantlock will happen in the next few months… they have become finalists in “design of the year” for this plant lock some of you seem to dislike so much. all i can say is well done to them.
http://designmuseum.org/exhibitions/2010/brit-insurance-designs-of-the-year
March 3rd, 2010 at 5:11 pm
an update:
a new Residential Cycle Parking Coordinator position has been created at lambeth; whose role it will be to implement and manage cycle parking
in residential areas, meaning that we should now be able to develop
cycle parking in Bonnington Square. The new coordinator’s name is
Claire Dickson.
i expect to hear from here in the coming weeks. ill let folk know what comes of that so we can all be involved in what happens next.